TVK :  Do you think that this had a very important role ?

YBC : Yes, Till then, even though she did not like it, she wanted to go.  Other people might be saying : You are doing this.  But this is the plan they were talking about.

TVK :  Was there any plan against the PM ?

YBC :  Other people may be planning.  But probably that meeting made her decide what she should do.  When Morarjibhai was relieved of his portfolio, I had a meeting with him.  There was an expectation among Morarjibhai's friends that as a protest I would resign.  My personal relations with both of them were good.  That day or the next day the Prime Minister came out with the proposal for bank nationalisation.  Till then.....

TVK :  You were responsible for the meeting between Morarji Desai and the Prime Minister ?

YBC :  I did not go to her to persuade her.  On the day she had taken the resignation of Morarjibhai, she telephoned to me and said, "I want to see you."  After all that I had heard about her outpourings against me, I was not in a proper mood to go and see her.  I talked to her on the telephone.  I said, "Madam, I got your word.  But I don't think I should come and meet you.  I thought I should speak to you on the telephone.  I am rather in a sad mood today."  I said "Shall I speak rather frankly?"

She said, "Why not?"

I said, "I don't know whether I have got any right to advice you."

She interrupted to say, "You have got every right to advise me."

"Why are you acting so harshly?  Why do you do this?  Shall I make one request?  Don't accept the (Morarji Desai's) resignation straighway."

She said, "I am not keen to accept it."

I said, "I don't come to meet you today.  I am not in a mood.  I will come sometime tomorrow.  Indicate sometime tomorrow.  I will meet you."

So I went to see her.  I said, "At least why don't you meet him?"  She said, "Yes, I will."

Then she called me the next day and indicated that she was bringing this ordinance for bank nationalisation.  That very evening she said, "I have called this meeting immediately.  You will get the notice.  But before you receive the notice of the meeting I thought you should know."  She gave a summary of the scheme of the nationalisation.

I said, "I am with you in this."  After the Cabinet meeting, Nijalingappa had a meeting for which they had invited me also and I went there.  I told them "Bank nationalisation is just now passed.  As far as I am concerned there is no question of dissociation with the Prime Minister.  I know I am not very happy about Morarjibhai going out of the Cabinet.  She has not taken the right step.  But there is no question of myself dissociating from the Cabinet.  Let us be clear about it.  You don't have any misgivings about it."

As I was coming out, the Press asked me the question ?  "Are you resigning ?"  I just abruptly said, "Of course not".  That "Of course not" was very harshly commented upon and reported.

TVK :  That was a very vital period and you have reconstructed the entire thing.  As you say, both Giri and Jagjivan Ram were not favourably thought of by the Prime Minister when you contacted her.  To Sanjiva Reddy there was no objection.  She never told you that we should not have Sanjiva Reddy.  Why this confusion ?

YBC :  Well....

TVK : Would you like to see the transcript ?

YBC :  Why ?  No. These are the facts and I stand by what I have said.