I quite agree that we have yet to go a long way to have a very powerful Air Force in our country. But this is the way we will have to go; there is no other way I can think of. We try to get it from friendly countries, from wherever we are likely to get them. Fortunately, Russia and other countries are trying to help us. At the same time, we must not forget our responsibility to establish production of these things. Naturally it will take more time, because development takes more time. For example-, regarding the British supersonic fighter-Lightening-he can verify those facts- really speaking the production programme was accepted sometime in 1949 and the first production plane came in 1960 or 1961. This is the position in a country like UK, where technical development has gone much ahead. Naturally in our country, where we are quite new in the fields of designing and manufacturing techniques, we will take more time. We must show more patience and be more realistic about it. There is no use taking some example of some country and trying to make fun about these things. It would ultimately amount to creating a feeling of defeatism in our country. That would he rather unfair to ourselves.

About HF 24 or MIGs, Mr. Nath Pai made one statement. He said, what is the use of getting this plane because it is going to become obsolete after some time’?

.....I think that is true about every plane. Aviation development is going so fast that by the time any’ plane reaches the stage of production, it is obsolete because somebody has gone ahead. Does it mean that we should not do anything ? Ultimately we have to accept something and as long as the plane that we have accepted for production is going to meet our own requirements and fulfil the role it is expected to fulfil, I think that answers the question. I have no doubt that if MIGs meet our requirements at least for a decade, they have done their job. The MIGs 21 that will be ultimately produced will be a modified version, which certainly fits in 100 per cent as far as the role of interception is concerned, for our air defence. So, hon. Member should not have any misgivings about these things and we must take these things in as right perspective.

It would be wrong to order new planes, unless we have not only spare parts, but facilities to train our people. Even training our people forms part of the agreement. Briefly I have referred to some of the arguments about the Air Force.

I now come to the Navy. Shri. Raghunath Singh is very particular about this. When I took over in 1962, even then I felt that the strength of our Navy was certainly not adequate for our purpose. Naturally in the last two years, if I had come to this House asking for more funds for the Navy, that would be at the cost of the army and air force. I think I would have done the greatest disservice. But certainly now we have come to a stage that we cannot any longer neglect the development of our navy. I have no doubt about it. How we do it is a great challenge for us. I think I must take the House into complete confidence in this matter. It is a very difficult task, because the army can he developed in a short period; perhaps even the air force can he developed, but navy cannot he developed in such a short time.

Sir, I am making this statement because of certain new developments that took place in this month. Just round about Andamans-Nicobars a submarine had made its appearance twice in the last month. In one of the flights of the Indian Air Force dakota, our people sighted a submarine in our territorial waters. When the submarine saw that air force place, it immediately dived.