I was trying to see things in their perspective. What is the perspective? Some Members like Piloo Mody say: you are talking in terms of abolishing poverty; what were you doing during the last 24 years? It is a very common place argument heard many times in the past while we were preparing for this war against poverty.

You cannot start a war against poverty without the necessary weapons for it. The necessary weapons for fighting the poverty is to create the necessary infrastructure in the country. That is exactly what we have done in the last 23 years. Our policy has not failed. Our policies have helped us to create the necessary infrastructure.

Now, it is a fashion for some Members to go on criticising the public sector. There are certainly some weakness and limitations in the public sector. We own them. But I would like to say that we are going to be more active to see that these defects are removed, and removed very firmly and quickly. But there is no doubt that one of the new sources of strength in our economy is the very well laid out base by the public sector in the country. Whether they involve losses or profits to the country is different matter. There are a number of public sector enterprises which are earning profits. I admit there are certain important public sector units which are losing. But, at the same time, as far as foreign exchange earning is concerned, it is increasing from year to year though there may be certain losses. This is one of the most important weapons - I would call it a weapon - in the hands of the country, in the hands of the masses, in the hands of the common man, to fight the war against poverty. This is the most important thing that we have achieved. We have created a new class of technicians in the country. The wider and deeper base of education; and the technical education, for example, has given a new strength. We have built up a new base of agriculture in the country. A country like India has had agriculture as the sheet anchor of its economy from immemorial times, but it is only within the last 25 years that we can say that we have built a modern base for the growth of industrial economy in this country.

These are three important weapons in the hands of any country which wants to fight the war against poverty. Now, with readiness, with three weapons, with the base of modern agriculture, with the base of public sector and a well-trained, technically oriented personnel, I think we are now ready, we are poised to fight the war against poverty.

I was answering the question of Shri. Piloo Mody. He was asking me what exactly we have done in the last 23 years. I say we have been preparing ourselves to fight the war against poverty. I have no doubt that we will succeed in this task. I do not take a cynical view that he takes; he thinks everything is bad, everybody is bad; everything is going wrong.

Shri S. M. Krishna (Mandya): Except himself.

Shri Yashwantrao Chavan: Yes except himself; I am glad you have said it. That is the difficulty with some of these good people. They are good people, but they just do not see what exactly is wrong with them.